The PHD Minim 300 sleeping bag with full length left-hand zip arrived yesterday and it feels really luxurious yet light, but as usual the first thing was to weigh it. I packed it in the supplied stuffsack and put it on the postal weighing scales - and the answer was quite surprising.
The zipless bag was quoted at 570g. This one in its stuffsack was 760g. These scales are sensitive enough to weigh the stuffsack separately and it was 30g. If the quoted weight on the website was correct (bear in mind that there could be up to around 10% variation in individual specimens), this means that the zip accounted for 160g of extra weight, equivalent to 28% more, which I would never have suspected.
Still, it’s significantly lighter than the ME Lightline which I now use for Spring and Autumn and I’m satisfied with that.
Comparing it with the ME Lightline, the down itself feels like it’s lofting considerably more. The PHD has 800 fill-power down compared with the Lightline 700 which perhaps partially accounts for it, but I’m wondering if the Lightline has lost some of its lofting ability over the years and the effect has crept up on us gradually. Maybe it’s time we had them cleaned, definitely a job for the few professional specialists in my view, but the process has always worried me: apparently they actually remove all the down and wash it separately, then put it back in. ME use EXL elasticated stitching - would they reuse that or replace it with standard stitching?. I’ll have to research all this before making a decision.
11 Comments
If it helps - I’ve not tried them myself but I keep on seeing WE Franklin mentioned:
http://www.franklinsgroup.co.uk/duckdown_feather.html
As far as I know they do not open the bags, only wash them properly.
On the other hand these guys will do and in fact can even take out down from two bags and make one new one! Again, not tried but I hear good things…
http://www.mountaineering-designs.co.uk/services.shtml
Franklins of Sheffield are the company I was thinking of, it was quite a while ago I read somewhere that they remove the down, maybe things have changed.
Thanks for the other link, I’ll contact both of them and make enquiries. It’s hard to tell if the bags really do need cleaning internally but it’s about time they were done anyway.
On the PHD web site there is a sleeping bag design programme. If you add a full zip to a zipless bag the weight goes up 100 gram. there are also choices of zip baffle single or double.i suppose all these things have weight
Yes it’s extraordinary where the weight comes from, the zip is a very significant fraction of the total. I imagine the other big weight difference from the Lightline comes from the lack of baffles.
i recently recieved the minim 300 without the zip and, like you, weighed it immediately and it came in at 599 in the stuffsack. I cant believe the zip can weigh that much! 160 grams for an ultralightweight bag is ridiculous, and you had to pay for it! They should be paying you to take it!
It’s hard to believe, I assume the extra weight must include the snag baffles and tougher backing material for sewing the zip. In hindsight I should have enquired about a part-length zip, that would have been quite adequate. I certainly wouldn’t want a bag with no zip at all, the zip gives a lot of instant and easy temperature control.
These bags are in the phd sale again, i’m thinking of getting one. How have you found it after presumably a good few uses ?
I regard it as basically a very good summer bag, although I will probably extend its range into Spring and Autumn by wearing a down jacket inside it, at least on those trips when I’m taking the jacket anyway. I think the baffle structure of the Minim is, well, minimal, to reduce weight. I always shake the bag well to try and fluff up the down in the top half.
Reading many forum posts on the subject of sleeping bags, I’m sure many people would be happy with the 300 in colder temperatures, but I like to be guaranteed a warm nights sleep.
Thanks for that Geoff. I’ll be doing the Scottish coast to coast 2nd week in May, sleeping low level. I will be taking a phd ultra vest and have an exped synmat so my feeling is that it should be adequate.
I’ve used a ME Lightline for the past 11 years and have always been delighted with its performance in temperatures even down to -18C in the Cairngorms, apart from the fact that latterly it was getting a bit wiffy and the foot and chin areas did appear the be getting more damp than in the past. It had never been cleaned in the those ten years or so and, embarrassed-ly, I sent it back for cleaning by Franklins. It cost about £45 if I recall and it was a big mistake. Without doubt the performance of the bag significantly DECREASED rather than improving and the wetting out is even worse than previously. I have tried misting Nikwas Tx Direct onto the worst areas but it really has not improved the situation.
I only today aborted a trip in the Scottish highlands after 4 fairly cold nights in calm, damp cnditions, although there was ice to chip off the outside of the Akto this morning.
I would say if you’ve had ten good years out of a much, much used bag then that probaly is the end. At the mo I am swivelling as to replace it with a RAB Alpine 400 or 600.
Colin Tock, Oyne, Aberdeenshire
Colin,
That’s a very interesting experience.
I haven’t given much thought to whether down will deteriorate over the years, cleaned regularly or not. I find it hard to understand how professional cleaning would of itself decrease performance, but of course I don’t know nearly enough about the processes and theory.
We bought our Lightlines 16 years ago (caveat: manufacturers sometimes continue with the same model name for years even when the design or spec changes a lot) but I have no idea really how their performance compares with new. They were cleaned just once.
The trouble is, over so many years it’s not just the bags - we have changed too. We feel the cold significantly more than a few years ago that’s for sure, and it makes comparisons difficult.
Anyway we’ll certainly be more mindful of their performance even if we can’t measure it. Unfortunately the only way to be sure is to try a brand new one, and that’s expensive!.